Insulin HELP !!!

-MU-

Trusted Member
Insulin HELP !!!

Ok So I'm about to take the plunge and start Slin PWO. Tried it once before but I was to fat to really notice a difference. Insulin resistant at the time I think due to high body fat. Since I'm just coming off a show I really want to take advantage of the rebound effect...I currently have 100iu's of Levemir but I was sort of thinking about maybe going with Novalog, or Humalog instead, since it's in and out of your system quickly...Mutant, VT which do you guys prefer and why ?

I know what supplements I need to be taking PWO with the slin, and I know to keep fat to a minimum obviously to avoid shuttling fat into the muscle cell...If you take a long acting insulin such as levemir do you restrict fat all day since there are several peaks ? This is why I was thinking of the Novalog/Humalog instead.

Pro/Cons ???
 
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-MU-

Trusted Member
Also I plan to run this with 2-3iu of GH as well and may look into IGF just not sure I can finacially swing it right now.
 

myosaurus

Trusted Member
I'm curious about levemir as well. isn't it same thing as humulin lantus? some were thought to take it first thing in the morning whereas I heard others take it before sleep. regardless, I can see it being great for appetite increase and I've always had appetite iissues in offseason...
 

-MU-

Trusted Member
Yep funny cause You think I would be eating everything under the sun but my appetite as actually been not so good here as of late.

Bump for more feedback
I'm curious about levemir as well. isn't it same thing as humulin lantus? some were thought to take it first thing in the morning whereas I heard others take it before sleep. regardless, I can see it being great for appetite increase and I've always had appetite iissues in offseason...
 

M FREAKY

Super Moderator
MU I have plenty Log in Pens the only thing I don't the syringes that goes with them you need a Script, I did have shit loads of them ( I gave them away) :(
 

vtliftvt

Trusted Member
Here are my thoughts:

1) humalog is less predictable than humilin-r. I never had a REAL problem with either but I have experienced hypo effects with log...never r

2) insulin will be better utilized as an anti-catabolic property and have a great synergestic (sp) effect with test and GH. It increases GH receptors (at doeses around 2-7iu) thus GH becomes more effective.

3) longer lasting will have longer effects of the above mentioned.

I have started to like log less and I would like to think that I've actually seen better results with R but all was post contest and I was growing regardless so hard to tell.

I would really like to try lantus/levimir.
 

ajdos

New member
I have had r and log- log has worked better for me and is easier to manage with its short life.
The one thing about slin use is to stagger its use with on off periods- and try to have more of the on time coincide with training days.

On your off days supplements like r-ala and apple cider vinegar can help with insulin sensitivity and help stave off insulin resistance making your on days more effective throughout your insulin cycle.

The thought of using IGF with slin is one that should be taken with caution- they work well together but IGF being 'insulin like' will amplify insulins blood sugar lowering effect 3-5 fold (depending on certain factors, insulin sensitivity and beginning blood glucose levels).
 

-MU-

Trusted Member
So just a question here...If one were to use HumilinR would you save your fats towards later in the day like say your last 2-3 meals that way the slin has peaked ? R has like a 5-7 hour half life correct ?...Where log has a half life of 3-4 hours correct ?

I think Freaky is gonna get me some log so it should not be an issue but just wondering in case it is.
 

vtliftvt

Trusted Member
So just a question here...If one were to use HumilinR would you save your fats towards later in the day like say your last 2-3 meals that way the slin has peaked ? R has like a 5-7 hour half life correct ?...Where log has a half life of 3-4 hours correct ?

I think Freaky is gonna get me some log so it should not be an issue but just wondering in case it is.
Fats wont be "shuttled" or "stored" as fat. Thats just brolore. It's total calorie intake that will make you fat.

Shelby eats fat around his slin shots all the time. I take my humunlin-r pre-workout and have my intra and post shake then have a red meat and oats meal with ends up with pretty high fat. I can still lose weight and diet with this.

But to answer your question, I wouldnt see any issue with doing what you propose and see how you feel and how you like that. I also dont see an issue with just spreading your macros out evenly except immediately PWO i would only have carbs and proteins, no fats.
 

irish_2003

Trusted Member
Yep funny cause You think I would be eating everything under the sun but my appetite as actually been not so good here as of late.

Bump for more feedback
i'm keto'ing it sunday thru friday meal 5/6 and my last meal of the day friday thru last meal saturday i'm allowed 3 cheat meals (whatever i want....generally red meat and loaded potato and stuffed omelet with veggies,sausage,and pancakes......funny thing is i'm starving all week and burning up throughout the day due to the lack of carbs and once i've had that first cheat meal i'm having a hard time with the 2nd and 3rd in those 24 hours......i think about it all week and once it's time i have no appetite after the first cheat.......i'll get pics tomorrow before my last meal after training and then again on saturday after i've had 2 of my cheats if i can get someone to take pics

sorry didn't mean to take away from your thread M-U.....i meant this as a comment to your lack of appetite compared to mine right now
 
M

Mutant

Guest
I prefer Novalog 100% of the time. I want big spikes, fast. It's predictable, easy to use, and is in and out quickly.

I have used Levemir a couple times, and honestly...I didnt like it. I really didnt see much of anything from it, and my appetite actually went down for whatever reason. Also, because it is in you all day, your insulin receptors lose sensitivity VERY fast compared to if you were just taking Novalog just once or twice a day. Yes, you can create your own natural spike when using Levemir, but what good will they do if your insulin sensitivity has gone down the toilet from a couple weeks of Levemir being in your system 24/7!!

I think Maxititer's theories on Levemir/Lantus are HIGHLY flawed. He was not even able to answer some simple questions I had. What does that tell you? He simply wanted to make a name for himself in the community.

Stick with what works, and has worked for many years.
 

-MU-

Trusted Member
Everything you just said makes a whole helluva alot of sense to me...I will wait on the log and if it takes to long I'll just pick up some R.
I prefer Novalog 100% of the time. I want big spikes, fast. It's predictable, easy to use, and is in and out quickly.

I have used Levemir a couple times, and honestly...I didnt like it. I really didnt see much of anything from it, and my appetite actually went down for whatever reason. Also, because it is in you all day, your insulin receptors lose sensitivity VERY fast compared to if you were just taking Novalog just once or twice a day. Yes, you can create your own natural spike when using Levemir, but what good will they do if your insulin sensitivity has gone down the toilet from a couple weeks of Levemir being in your system 24/7!!

I think Maxititer's theories on Levemir/Lantus are HIGHLY flawed. He was not even able to answer some simple questions I had. What does that tell you? He simply wanted to make a name for himself in the community.

Stick with what works, and has worked for many years.
 

ajdos

New member
So just a question here...If one were to use HumilinR would you save your fats towards later in the day like say your last 2-3 meals that way the slin has peaked ? R has like a 5-7 hour half life correct ?...Where log has a half life of 3-4 hours correct ?

I think Freaky is gonna get me some log so it should not be an issue but just wondering in case it is.
If you pin it IM you will reduce those times- onset to peak and exit will be cut nearly in half- absolutely a good idea to not eat high fat foods when slin is active-slin has two major functions depose glucose/amino acids and to store fat- any lipid being uptaken in the gut will have a much higher chance of being stored as bodyfat.
Save your fatty meals for later in the day as you suggested and reduce carbo hydrate with those meals accordingly.
 

vtliftvt

Trusted Member
If you pin it IM you will reduce those times- onset to peak and exit will be cut nearly in half- absolutely a good idea to not eat high fat foods when slin is active-slin has two major functions depose glucose/amino acids and to store fat- any lipid being uptaken in the gut will have a much higher chance of being stored as bodyfat.
Save your fatty meals for later in the day as you suggested and reduce carbo hydrate with those meals accordingly.
I beg you to show any proof or studies of this. I BEG you.
 

ajdos

New member
I beg you to show any proof or studies of this. I BEG you.
And you have studies to the contrary I suppose? I dont mind being 'educated' but slin is a 2 fold function and part of that is storing fat.
Its about learning for me, and I have no issue with being wrong, but prove the statement to be false- as I have been at this 20 years you can please enlighten me.
 
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ajdos

New member
Acnemans Insulin FAQ

what is insulin?

Insulin is a hormone secreted by the beta cells of the pancreas that controls the metabolism and cellular uptake of sugars, proteins, and fats. As a drug, it is used principally to control diabetes. Insulin is not a steroid.

What type of insulin should I use for bodybuilding?

Humulin R and Humulog are the only insulins I recommend because they act fast and are out of the body fastest(this makes them the safest). I have never used Humalog but understand that aside from quicker onset and half-life it is essentially the same.

Why do I want to use insulin?

Insulin has been called "Anabolicus Maximus" by some gurus of the bodybuilding world. Insulin can give you greater gains than you have ever had using anabolics alone. Insulin, in combination with androgens and resistance exercise, may trigger maturation of satellite muscle cells (small, more or less useless cells that are held in reserve, which do not contribute to muscular strength) into mature muscle cells that do contribute to muscular size and strength. How freakin cool is that. Hyperinsulinemia has been shown to stimulate protein synthesis in isolated limb infusion experiments , these anabolic properties seem to be the result of insulin binding to IGF-1 receptors.

If insulin is so great why aren't all diabetics huge?

Diabetics have a disease and use insulin to replace endogenous insulin that they cannot produce. Bodybuilders use insulin in a totally different way. Some diabetic bodybuilders manipulate their insulin use to use insulin for muscle growth and get good results but changing dosages and times of injection of insulin for diabetics can be dangerous.

Isn't taking insulin dangerous?

ummm YES! Before deciding to take insulin here is what you have to do to be safe.

Insulin safety

1. Do not use slin alone have a training partner or girlfriend who's not using slin hang around with you from the time you take the slin to about 2.5/4 hrs after.

2. Tell you're partner to look for anything out of the norm for your personality and have a list of questions like your ssn or address etc that they can ask you. Don't joke around, and answer them without ****, because if you cant answer or refuse to answer it could be a sign of hypoglycemia(low blood sugar). Symptoms of hypoglycemia include disorientation, headache, drowsiness, weakness, dizziness, fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor, and nausea.

3. If you cant/wont answer or are feeling the symptoms of hypoglycemia they should be prepared to feed you carbs like pancake syrup, coke, sugary stuff. I bought glucose tablets at walmart. kinda like candy but gets in the blood faster and dissolve quickly. these are for diabetics ask at the pharmacy.

4. Have your partner know that if they suspect low blood sugar and cant convince or force you to consume carbs until your better. CALL 911 and ask for an ambulance and tell the truth to the operator... that they suspect you are in insulin shock and explain when they get there(the ambulance guys not the cops) that you are not diabetic but using insulin for anabolic purposes. Have the type of slin, the dosage and carbs consumed recorded to give the paramedic. They will save your life. Then you refuse transport to the hospital and eat. It might be a good idea to make sure your house is "clean" before every workout just in case the bad thing happens and the cops ask a lot of questions.

5. Why so much preparation for the possible problem?? insulin can kill you in minutes if you go down!!

6. Take the carbs and protein together immediately after injecting the slin(dont take chances trying to time out 15 min after injection). Take the protein with the carbs because the protein is pushed into the muscles with the slin also(creatine too).

7. Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs).

8. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. Congrats you lived.(keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure because your not gonna have a lifeline)

9. YAWN... Don't go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycemia while asleep and not have warning signs.

Ok I'm not scared I still want to use insulin...

Where do i get it?

Humulin R is over the counter (OTC) just about everywhere. Humulog is new and is still a prescription drug is some places. BUT... Insulin is NOT a controlled substance and will not be confiscated by customs or postal inspectors so order it online if you cant get it locally. Its legal.

Where do I keep it? (STORAGE)

The FDA requires that all preparations of insulin contain instructions to keep in a cold place and to avoid freezing. The refrigerator is a good spot. Unrefrigerated insulin can be kept of 28 days as long as it stays in a cool and dark place.

Where/how do I inject insulin?

The best sites for insulin injection are in the subcutaneous tissue of the abdomen(avoid the area close to bellybutton) .Usually, you should not inject within 1 inch of the same site within 1 month. The arms and legs can also be used, but insulin uptake from these sites is less uniform. Insulin should be injected subcutaneously only with a U-100 insulin syringe. "B-D ultra-fine" insulin syringes are good. Insulin syringes are available without a prescription in many states. If you cant purchase the syringes at a pharmacy, you can mail order them. Using a syringe other than a specific insulin syringe is dangerous since it will be difficult to measure out the correct dosage.

How much insulin should I take?

I recommend never using over 10IU. 10IU is enough to make you grow.
In general Dosages used are usually 1 IU per 20 pounds of lean bodyweight. So a 220lb bodybuilder with 9% body-fat would use 10iu of insulin(aprox200lb lean mass/20 = 10iu). But even experienced insulin users shouldn't use max dosage at the beginning of an insulin cycle. First-time users should start at a low dosage and gradually work up. For example, first begin with 2 IU and then increase the dosage by 1 IU every consecutive workout until you reach your calculated dose or determine a maximum personal dose(some people are more sensitive to insulin sides like hypoglycemia). This will allow the athlete to determine a dosage he can safely use. Insulin dosages can vary significantly among athletes and are dependent upon insulin sensitivity and the use of other drugs. Athletes using growth hormone and thyroid might have higher insulin requirements.


When do I take insulin?

It is my opinion that you should only take insulin after a work out, never before or when not working out, because before a work out you could crash and die during the workout and when your not working out it makes you fat. Some people disagree with this. IF you want, get some info from them and try it. But remember I told ya so.

When do i eat after using insulin?

Immediately!!! DO NOT TRY TO TIME YOUR CONSUMPTION OF CARBS!! You should immediately take a carbohydrate AND protein drink after taking you're insulin. I've stated this twice because it is very important. Even experienced insulin users can get a surprise now and then.
Eat a meal at about an hour after using insulin. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms.


What do I eat after using insulin?

Some people recommend a zero fat intake for 4 hours after taking insulin. I do not disagree with this. But if your bulking you can be a little relaxed on this. But high fat intake after taking insulin can lead to high body fat.
The carb/protein drink taken after the insulin shot should contain AT LEAST 10 grams of carbs and 5 grams of quality protein per IU of insulin injected with little or no fat(creatine taken in this drink is optional but works great). Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs). At 2.5 hours after the injection you should Consume a small meal. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms. Once again i've stated this twice because it is important.

***Some insulin users recommend far less carbs than I have stated above. This is a personal decision you will have to make since it could be very dangerous...Even deadly! My opinion is to take the carbs and learn to diet after bulking if you gain too much fat.***

How long should/can I take insulin?

Short cycles please because you could have side effects. It is suspected that you could become an insulin dependant diabetic but I have never seen proof, but is it worth the risk? I would only use it a few times a week(maximum 4 on 3 off) for no more than 3/4 weeks.

What should I avoid while using insulin?

Do not use alcohol. It lowers blood sugar, and you may experience dangerously low blood sugar levels.
 

ajdos

New member
Monster's Insulin Primer!

Ok, lets have a look at insulin.

Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark
(I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never
know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic
concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...

ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC

ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or
of building complex substances out of simple substances.

The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances)
and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.

ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC

"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids."
They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways,
some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, anavar,
primobolan, ect...).

Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties,
but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another
time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.



INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic

Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone,
or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to
testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash
of interconnected glands...



WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC

So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle"
if you will.

Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and
drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does,
and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand
how it works.

So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism
and is therefor anabolic!



WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN

Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin
levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using
insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).

Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.

If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin
is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced
burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient
way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.



WHAT KIND DO I TAKE

Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!

Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15
minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.

Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour
mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.

"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are
not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout
the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I
USE IT" section.

There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no
more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived
insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.

WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE

Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont
like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.

The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who
are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.

Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically
carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and
if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start
it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked
out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast
shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains
may come from.



DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS

There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per
I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.

I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic
friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel
hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.

A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think,
"Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"

After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably
lower in carbs than people previously believed.

Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose
of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to
use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant
be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices
and amounts.

The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person
with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy
the situation.

HOW DO I DO IT

If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold
a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe,
and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout,
head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin
from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and
inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder
to predict when it will spike.

So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since
the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little
more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly
wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)

(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)

I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5%
di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs
to the 10 i.u. of insulin.

This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles,
but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.

Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this
1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat
a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained
in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and
little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to
a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.

After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin,
it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.

Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2
i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding
of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to
try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results
(except fat!)

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS

Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your
body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic.
What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles
re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any
remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the
rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it
heads for the brain.

Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats
why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet...
low glucose equals light headedness.

So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you
can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.

If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage
and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major
danger, but dont mess around.

"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2
hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins
partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as
it is carbs and protien to muscles!

So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why
I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)




Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I
missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured
everyone would know or assume on their own...
 

vtliftvt

Trusted Member
These posts mean nothing. The one thing you bolded said HIGH fat. Of course high fat + protein + carbs would make you fat. My point is that you do not have to AVOID all fats.

If using log, I wont take in fats after use just because its usually my pre-intra-post workout shake a meal. However, in the offseason, if using hum-r I may have a meal that has 15-20 grams of fat + 30-40 carbs + 50 grams protein. That doesnt mean I'm going to store straight fat.

Fats consume will not ultimately be shuttled and stored directly as fat...the body doesnt work that way. I have a really good friend that is type 1 diabetic. The kid has an insulin pump. He eats worse than you can imagine and he's as skinny as a bean pole....why wouldnt that be the case for him? If insulin + fat = fat storage?

Its about total caloric intake! Not macro profile. You just posted a bunch of shit off a board that doesnt mean anything and you obviously have no real world experience either.
 
M

Mutant

Guest
I use peanut butter and whole milk in my PWO shakes with insulin. I just get leaner, or maintain the same level of bodyfat.

There is some relevance to what Adjos is saying, but it is obviously going to be different with everybody. If your body needs the nutrients, it isnt going to store it.
 

vtliftvt

Trusted Member
I use peanut butter and whole milk in my PWO shakes with insulin. I just get leaner, or maintain the same level of bodyfat.

There is some relevance to what Adjos is saying, but it is obviously going to be different with everybody. If your body needs the nutrients, it isnt going to store it.
There is relevance in that high fat will = high cals and extra cals over maintenance will be stored as fat no matter what the source. But there is no way in hell that anyone can state that if you have fat with slin its automatically stored as fat....just ain't happening.

Think of this Adjos...how long would it take to eat a meal that contains moderate fat, high protein, and mod/high carbs? How long would it take to digest and then be assimilated by the body? The time frame you normally hear is around 3-4 hours. Whats the active life of log? So you're saying you pop log PWO...have a pwo shake with just carbs and protein (which most would) then eat a meal 30min to an hour later...that the body would just digest and store it as fat? LOL RIIIIIIITEEEEEE.
 
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